Thinking about tubes for my Altec 19's and Klipsch Khorns . . .
Currently have a Mac 6500 ss integrated 125/channel, with a tuner and Oppo cd/dvd/dac all hooked up to my entertainment center.
Can you still get the tube quality if its first run through the Mac ss preamp? I like the functionality (phono, two sets of speakers, remote, tied in to TV etc) of the Mac, but would like to please my speakers with tubes . . .
Opinions welcome - thanks in advance.
You asked :"Can you still get the tube quality if its first run through the Mac ss preamp? Yes, I think you can have excellent quality, IF done right.Originally Posted by bhmav8r
Here is why IMHO :
(1) For a Model 19 or a K Horn, you only need a good triode 3 Watts of power for normal HI FI listening. ( I am running 1.4 Watts on my A7 with a simpler first order crossover and about a 200 Watt power supply ). Both the ALTEC 19 and your KLIPSCH have complex crossovers that SUCK up power, so the need is for 3 Watts rather than 1.5 Watts . Most of the time, you will use 3/4s of a Watt, or less.
(2) For a 3 Watt requirement, you get to use one ( of two, the other being a glorious Type 45 ) of the best sounding most-useful tubes for Finals EVER designed in the history of audio, the magnificent 2A3 DHT !!!
(3) With a triode in the output stage, you can use ZERO global negative feedback, so you will hear the music in the MUSIC's time, and NOT in the time of a amp's negative feedback loop. No negative feedback amps are more musically compelling and involving to hear, its just "more right " IMHO.
(4) With a 3 Watt goal, you do NOT need to go Push Pull, which in itself is a big advantage. Push Pull amps, because of the need to split phase and recombine the halves in the output transformer are PROCESSORs !!! The simplest and purest musical expression comes from the simplest usable audio circuit, a triode SET amp. On ALTEC speakers, this will always be the best SOUNDING solution IF done properly, ( which many, unfortunately for them, do not do .)
(5) With a 3 Watt goal, and the 2A3 as the Finals tube, you can build a DIRECT COUPLED amplifier, using half a 12AX7 or half a 6SL7WGT to easily run the 2A3. A two stage DC amp, having NO series coupling caps directly in the signal path what so ever, will be the most transparent-sounding of any possible useful topology. It will creme any three stage amp, when done right.
Of course, I am assuming the best possible implementations, and IF you can build, I will show you how. If you have to buy a commercial product, there are a few, but really IMHO, there really is only one choice done superbly.....costs $15 K a pair and you are DONE with amps. You can build something for under $3.5 K if you are handy.
So in summary, from all of my own listening over a long time, decades, to many topologies, its mighty hard to equal a 2A3 two stage SE amp with zero negative feedback. I would NOT sweat a solid state source feeding the amp, won't hurt the amp's inherent advantages, and may help the amp !!
Have fun, and good luck.
Jeff Medwin
Last edited by LowOhms; January 27th, 2014 at 11:26 AM.
Yes. Remember that preamp output to power amp input compatibility is important and if not considered may degrade the overall performance of two otherwise fine components.
Opinion is only as valid as its verifiable supporting evidence.
Hi mah,
Impedance-wise, a solid state preamp will be low Z so, it will easily drive the begeebers out of a tube ( high Z ) input stage / amplifier.
Vice versa, however, becomes somewhat of a problem. This was not the case stated by the original poster.
Jeff Medwin
I am fairly handy and can follow directions - ie a kit. Was considering something like Bottlehead or others.
I would be very interested in you options.
Thanks, Bruce
Hi Bruce,
I am not in the audio business, and I have no kit. I am just an experienced amp-building amateur.
If you contact me by private email, or through this Forum, I will be glad to send you some information for you to evaluate on your own. My email is
[email protected].
The last audiophile I mentored, to help him build his first tube amp, was in the UK, and it was monoblocks of a two stage DC Type 45 amp. He sorta gets "carried away", but here is a "final report" he wote and posted on his build, last week, on another Forum.
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/se...s/7/74895.html
Jeff Medwin
Last edited by LowOhms; January 27th, 2014 at 04:40 PM.
I said COMPATIBILITY.
To get the drift look here: https://suite101.com/a/din-hifi-vint...tching-a115488
Nowadays, who knows what type of circuitry some unconventional boutique-designers of audio equipment have in their products?
Most products will work together. That does not mean the auditioner will like the result.
Opinion is only as valid as its verifiable supporting evidence.
I use a SS pre with tubes on my 19s and 604s as well. I also use an Oppo player and a turntable.
Depending on what type of music you listen to, how big your room is and how loud you listen, 2A3 may or may not be the answer. I have a moderate sized room and 3 watts isn't quite there for heavy rock on the 19s. For jazz and smaller classical, a 2A3 amp is ideal. Even if you don't often listen at elevated volumes, when you want to you'll regret not having the juice. A beefier tube amp can really work with model 19s.
That said, a 2A3 amp does sound better than most SS amps I've heard within it's limitations.
Honestly I think quality is gonna be an issue more than compatibility.
I have to go on record as being skeptical about religious beliefs about power amps. I am agnostic.
Your neighbors called. They like your music.
Agnostic = sitting on the fence. That is fine until you get a better understanding of a topic.
Re quality. Connect a high quality current source design to a high quality voltage source design. or vice-versa, and the result may not be high quality.
You may encounter a component that is meant to be DC coupled.
That is electronics for you.
Admittedly the chance of encountering this situation in the modern world is unlikely but if you mix gear with standard DIN connectors(usually older) with gear with other types of connectors(usually means different electronic interface circuits) you may encounter a compatibility problem. I have had problems with Pro vs domestic level compatibility and balanced/unbalanced compatibility. Some modern 'audiophile' gear is not designed using wholly sound engineering practises but tinkered with to achieve a particular sound signature. These products are often very sensitive to what they are connected to(including short interconnects), or so their audiophile supporters claim.
Input and out put impedance are but two things to consider.
In the end connect up and listen.
Last edited by mah; January 28th, 2014 at 07:14 AM.
Opinion is only as valid as its verifiable supporting evidence.
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks